From discussions at various stages, a range of views exist on standardising further detail at lower layers of decomposition in eTOM.

 

Some see the existing detail as sufficient for a Framework, and that further detail would be difficult to agree and might inhibit flexibility and differentiation.

 

Others think that we can go further before these problems arise, and that Level 3 in Enterprise Management and Level 4 in Operations and Strategy, Infrastructure & Product, would be useful.

 

In general, it is recognised that moving to a new level of detail multiplies the scale of the effort involved, because of the expanding number of process elements to consider, and so progress in this area is likely to be selective or even to provide examples only.

 

What are your views on this? Do you think more detail would be helpul, or would be a constraint on flexibility? Are there existing lower level decompositions already available in individual companies that could be contributed as candidates?

 

regards Mike

As what is mentioned in GB921,eTOM is a ideal and neutral business framework,which guarantees eTOM to be widely used among different companies.

 

In China, more and more Telecom operators are aware of the importance of  eTOM as well as its future development roadmap. However, they found it still really hard to use eTOM to improve their business process. Obviously, there are multiple reasons.  One of the factors goes, recent eTOM version lacks of operational guidance. Although it could be nice to release level 4 or level 5(which helps us better and deeper understand the business framework), operators may find it difficult to map their own business framework to eTOM and to make further improvement.

 

In short, my suggestion is that eTOM team could help the a certain number of individual companies to decomposite the level within their operational environment. Once we got plenty of successful stories of implementing eTOM, the situation may be changed.

 

PS: In China, there are different understanding of eTOM, certain trainings or certificate processs may fill the gap(as what have been done in other part of the world).

 

kindly regards, alex

 

 

Good Observation.

BT has been promoting the idea of an eTOM Guidelines document ( for about 2 years) which would document the way in which user organisations could systematically apply and extend the eTOM framwork using consistent analysis patterns. This would have the benefit that compaies could extend the eTOM in a consistent way and perhaps contribute back part of their work to the benefit of the eTOM community. By followng the guidelines it would be much easier to integrate thes contributions back into the core eTOM document.

 

Currently  the team lacks a critical mass of expert contributers to support this proposal.

 

In part this is because this kind of material competes with commercial  training and consultancy work.

Hi,

 

As Dave says there is always a difficult balance between advancing the generic work and looking at individual company cases.

 

The best route seems to be to improve the quanity of material available that looks at how the work can be applied, and the suggestion on another thread here on "eTOM and its Applications" is an attempt to draw in experience from companies in how they are using eTOM and then look for common themes that can be addressed.

 

The best way forward therefore is likely to be to contribute individual experiences and look for the community here to comment and suggest.

 

regards Mike 

 

I tend to think there is room to take eTOM down to another level without necessarily getting into a specific telco's way of doing things.

 

As previously mentioned, given the fact that there are a number of consultant type firms and Telcos that have their own priviate collection of  L4s and L5s indicate that a) these levels to exist and b) there is some amount of interest and/or need for them.

 

Something else to keep in mind is that by producing such a level of detail would also likely confirm the existing L2s and L3s.

 

As with anything, getting companies willing to share or develop the L4s is certianly a challenge!

Hi,

 

Below is the email thread copied from the eTOM Users Group area on  www.tmforum.org for background on the discussion there on this topic - we are going to move these discussions into this broader Online Community area going forward, since it will be confusing to have two areas where discussions may be happening.

 

regards Mike

 

 

Started By: sorel nou
Posted: 9/6/2004 6:37:00 AM
 Replies: 36
I am interested in finding out the works that have been done on process framework at level 4 and 5. Is there any document that I can download or a training CD-Rom that I can purchase which contains such decomposition? 

Add Reply 
 
 
 
Reply From: Bonie Erwanto
Posted: 9/25/2004 10:13:00 PM 
As I understand, TMF only decomposed as far as level 3 (in FAB area). Because below level 3 is company specific processes, some times.

We have decomposed our processes until level 4, all of them. And we are now moving implementing level 5.

You can contact me directly for more info. thx. 
 
 
 
Reply From: sorel nou
Posted: 10/6/2004 9:27:00 AM 
Hi Bonnie,

I'd appciate some guidances in this area. Please contact me. My e-mail sorel.nou@sesi.co.uk 
 
 
 
Reply From: Osama Salih
Posted: 12/19/2004 3:40:00 AM 
Hi Bonie,

I am intrested to know more about the work you have done in decomposing to level 4 & 5. Please email your contact to osama@as.com.sa
Thanks 
 
 
 
Reply From: zhang andy
Posted: 12/20/2004 7:32:00 AM 
I would like to know that too. Mail to me. zeann@126.com. Thanks. 
 
 
 
Reply From: Lesego Chauke
Posted: 12/20/2004 9:14:00 AM 
I am also interested in the Level 4 and 5 decompositions. Please email me the details as well... lesego.chauke@accenture.com 
 
 
 
Reply From: Avi Ofrane
Posted: 12/28/2004 1:40:00 PM 
Hi Sorel, Bonie;

Thank you for putting forth your question. We are developing eTOM adn NGOSS training programs and are interested in adding a few case studies of companies that have used the methodology. Bonie, is it possible for us to get information on your decomp work? We will not include it in our courses unless you want to. My email address is: avi@billingcollege.com. Thanks, Avi Ofrane 
 
 
 
Reply From: charles ogunde
Posted: 12/30/2004 9:31:00 AM 
Hi Bonnie,

I am also interested in Level 4 and 5 decompositions. Please email me at charleog@mtnnigeria.net . Many thanks and Best wishes. 
 
 
 
Reply From: daniel benninger
Posted: 1/3/2005 3:36:00 PM 
Hi Bonie

I am also interested in Level 4 and 5 decompositions. Please email me at himself@dbenninger.ch

Many thanks and kind regards.
Daniel 
 
 
 
Reply From: Ken Phillips
Posted: 1/13/2005 11:05:00 AM 
Hello Bonnie:

I guess I shall add my request for any Level 4 process materials you are in a position to share. I can be reached at kenwphillips@gmail.com.

Thanks,

Ken Phillips - OSS Architect 
 
 
 
Reply From: Steve Silver
Posted: 1/13/2005 10:56:00 PM 
I am also interested in the Level 4 and 5 decompositions. Could you please email me the details as well... steve_silver@infosys.com 
 
 
 
Reply From: Eric Suess
Posted: 1/18/2005 11:29:00 AM 
I am also interested in the Level 4 and 5 decompositions. When you can, please send any details you have to eric.suess@nextel.com. Thank you for your consideration. 
 
 
 
Reply From: Mattijs van den Hoed
Posted: 1/19/2005 8:32:00 AM 
Hi Bonie, Sorel,

I am also very interested in the level 4 and 5 decomps. But even more, I would like to hear of your experience in doing this work. Is your organisation actually operating in accordance witht he description at level 5? How do you rate the importance of a level 5 description? How do you manage that the description and the reality remain in sync?

I am at this point in discussion with a customer how is in fact doing what you have also done (decomp to level 5) and he has these questions regarding this process.

Any information regarding your experience would be greatly welcomed.

Kind regards,

Mattijs van den Hoed

 
 
 
Reply From: Nidal Barake
Posted: 1/25/2005 10:15:00 AM 
Sorel Nou, I have seen that a lot of people need levels 4 and 5, but haven´t seen any reply providing that info. Have you got it? please contact me at nbarake@cantv.net 
 
 
 
Reply From: Osama Salih
Posted: 1/29/2005 1:49:00 AM 
I have seen many requests for level4 & 5 processes coming through the forum. I would like to explain from experience that processes at these levels get very specific for the enterprise. As such, many of these processes applicable at one organization may not be applicable for others in addition to confidentiality issues in releasing these processes. The one most important aspect of building these processes is the development and full understanding of the techniques used to develop the decomposition while moving down the process levels.

Regards
Osama
 
 
 
 
Reply From: Mike Kelly
Posted: 4/20/2005 8:21:00 AM 
Hi,

As part of the eTOM work program beyong teh current GB921 Release 5.0 (just being published), we are considering developing Level 4 process descriptions in selected areas of the model.

However, as others have commented here, there is an issue with the detail becoming company-specific and of course the expansion in the number of process elements involved multiplies the scale of the task, so it is not clear yet how this will proceed.

regards Mike 
 
 
 
Reply From: Dinesh Ramanan
Posted: 4/22/2005 4:48:00 AM 
Hi Bonnie,

Just wanted to know the status of detailed decompositions of eTOM to level 4 & 5. Is it complete? Can I have a copy of the same. If not, I was wondering if my company - 'Cognizant Technology Solutions' (a member of the TM forum) could contribute in the success of this initiative along with the other participating companies?
 
 
 
 
Reply From: Azhar Rehman
Posted: 5/9/2005 12:07:00 AM 
We are interested in level 4 and 5 decompositions. CAn I have the contact of Bonie Erwanto.
Regards
Azhar ----- bamsd@emirates.net.ae 
 
 
 
Reply From: Salim Vhora
Posted: 6/6/2005 2:33:00 AM 
Hi Bonnie,
I would also be interested in receiving a copy of L4 and L5 decompositions. My company (Mahindra British Telecom) is a member of TM Forum and could review / make future contributions towards the same. Please contact me at salim@mahindrabt.com.

Salim Vhora 
 
 
 
Reply From: Hana Fawzy
Posted: 6/8/2005 10:13:00 AM 
Hi Sorel & Bonie
If you've got level 3,4&5 of the enterprise Etom, pls. send a copy of the full document for my review, if possible.
Regards
Hana Fawzy
hanafawzy@usa.net 
 
 
 
Reply From: Saleem Qureshi
Posted: 6/23/2005 2:47:00 PM 
Hi All, i have been working on a (greenfield) Mobile Service Provider covering SIP/FAB/ENT area on level 3/4 & at some points 5. I am interested in anyone that has done the same for a new Start-up Mobile Service Operator. If anyone out there can exchange information me please let me know. 
 
 
 
Reply From: Nidal Barake
Posted: 6/29/2005 10:37:00 AM 
we at Cantv in Venezuela are interested in contacting a consulting firm to assess some of our processess and determine the gap vs eTOM. Any recomendation of a company I should contact? You can email me at nbarake@cantv.net 
 
 
 
Reply From: sylvia moraes
Posted: 6/29/2005 6:48:00 PM 
Hi Bonnie,
I am also interested in working on L4 and L5 decompositions. As a TM member, we can make future contributions towards the same. Please contact me at sylvia.moraes@eds.com 
 
 
 
Reply From: Bonie Erwanto
Posted: 7/14/2005 5:40:00 AM 
FYI, I will be speaking at TM Forum ASEAN Regional Summit in Kuala Lumpur. The subject will be around eTOM implementation and decomposition approach in XL. So feel free to join. Mike, hoping you will be there too, we need an offline discussion for what we are to do next. Thx 
 
 
 
Reply From: Francisco Gracia
Posted: 7/14/2005 2:26:00 PM 
Hi Forum.
I believe there is great interest in this issue. I would also love to further hear about process decomposition, and would love to participate in any discussions / projects working towards more specifics in processes, interfaces (contract interface), interaction with SID and "services" (in the wide sense: as result of processes).
Please contact me @ graciaga@haas.berkeley.edu.
Best,
Francisco Gracia. 
 
 
 
Reply From: Hiro Daryanani
Posted: 11/9/2005 6:42:00 AM 
I believe the TMForum party line on this is that Level 3 is the "consensus amongst industry" as to how far the specifications should go. Based on the above, it seems like there is a significant demand for Level 4 and Level 5 processes. Wonder if someone in the TMForum would be willing to comment on the apparent need? 
 
 
 
Reply From: Hiro Daryanani
Posted: 11/9/2005 6:45:00 AM 
incidentally, if there are level 4/5 decompositions to be had, I would be interested to (hiro@mohinika.com). I am currently a contractor to a LARGE global mobile operator so could contribute through them as well. 
 
 
 
Reply From: Darin Sakdatorn
Posted: 11/11/2005 2:39:00 AM 
I am interested in Level 4 and 5 decompositions. Please email me at dowdarin@gmail.com

Many thanks and Best Regards,

Darin 
 
 
 
Reply From: Keerti Shrimal
Posted: 11/13/2005 6:02:00 PM 
Hi Bonnie,

I'd also appreciate some guidance in this area and would like to understnad the Level 4&5 process decompositions that you have done. Please contact me at keerti_shrimal@infosys.com 
 
 
 
Reply From: Tirta Kusuma
Posted: 11/15/2005 4:04:00 PM 

Hi Mr Bonie Erwanto,

I am very interested in the level 4 and 5 decomposition. Actually, I am a student doing my final assignment on eTOM implementation in Indonesia. I am hoping to know your email and number, maybe we can have an offline discussion. Any information regarding your experience would be a very usefull guidance for me. Thx.

Please contact me. My e-mail tirtakusuma@gmail.com

Kind regards,

tirta 
 
 
 
Reply From: Tirta Kusuma
Posted: 11/15/2005 4:05:00 PM 

Hi Mr Bonie Erwanto,

I am very interested in the level 4 and 5 decomposition. Actually, I am a student doing my final assignment on eTOM implementation in Indonesia. I am hoping to know your email and number, maybe we can have an offline discussion. Any information regarding your experience would be a very usefull guidance for me. Thx.

Please contact me. My e-mail tirtakusuma@gmail.com

Kind regards,

tirta 
 
 
 
Reply From: david adams
Posted: 11/15/2005 10:40:00 PM 
I'm also interested in process decompositions to L4.
I fully understand all the arguments about processes becoming 'enterprise-specific' below layer 3. Nevertheless there is clearly a number of parties/ amount of interest in this topic.
In some areas of the model an L4 view may be more likely "useful" and "relevant" and in other areas less so - that should not prevent the development of at least those parts that would be reusable by others.
I also think there is room for a generic (idealised?) model that will have different degrees of application to different organisations.
If anyone can post or send even portions of process decompositions they have done to L4 I would be most interested - and prepared to provide comment/help where I can.
David Adams

 
 
 
 
Reply From: david adams
Posted: 11/15/2005 10:41:00 PM 
I'm also interested in process decompositions to L4.
I fully understand all the arguments about processes becoming 'enterprise-specific' below layer 3. Nevertheless there is clearly a number of parties/ amount of interest in this topic.
In some areas of the model an L4 view may be more likely "useful" and "relevant" and in other areas less so - that should not prevent the development of at least those parts that would be reusable by others.
I also think there is room for a generic (idealised?) model that will have different degrees of application to different organisations.
If anyone can post or send even portions of process decompositions they have done to L4 I would be most interested - and prepared to provide comment/help where I can.
David Adams

 
 
 
 
Reply From: Arno van Doorn
Posted: 1/3/2006 10:20:00 AM 
Hallo All,

I see here a discussion about L4/L5. I assume L4 is meant to be the work intructions and L5 the product information correct ?

I want to check this as I see below L3 even 3 extra layers

L4: Work Instruction
L5: Resources needed to fullfil the instruction (information, knowledge base, tools, systems, forms, templates, optional human resources etc.)
L6: Supporting information like system manuals

What is your view on this ?

I compare this with a restaurant.

L2: Customer orders a meal
L3: All steps before meal delivery "öne step is to make the meal this case pizza"
L4:Recipe to make the pizza
L5: All resources needed to make the pizza (ingredients, but also which tools and ovens if important for the output)
L6: System Manuals like ho to operate the oven, micorwave for special programming if needed etc.

Thanks for your view on this

ajvandoorn@mail.com
 
 
 
 
Reply From: rolf tuchel
Posted: 2/13/2006 5:49:00 AM 
I am also interested in the Level 4 and 5 decompositions. Please email me the details as well... r.tuchel@jhl-teleconsult.com 
 
 
 
Reply From: Vishal Sharma
Posted: 3/1/2006 5:19:00 AM 
I am also interested to explore further into Level 4 and 5 decompositions for FAB. Could you also please email me the details at vishal.sharma@wipro.com.

Thank you.

Regards,
Vishal 
 
 
 
Reply From: Axel Nilsson
Posted: 3/17/2006 5:04:00 AM 
Hi,

I am intersted in more information about level 3-4. What I am especially interested in is what processes are included at each level. Any pointers / documentation would be much appreciated.

Many Thanks

Axel 

I'm interested it eTOM decomposition too.

please email me about the detail information, thanks!  fanxl05@st.lzu.edu.cn

Hi Bonnie,

 

I also interested in the level 4 and 5 decompositions. Could you please email me the details at t_821680@cpqd.com.br . Thanks!

  

Best Regards,

Simone.

I think that lower level of eTOM may confuse. eTOM is structured telecom business process dictionary it is supporting but not oblige improvements. It helps to structure own knowledge and to see new opportunities baseв on best practices. For those objectives the detail is enough. 4th and 5th levels seem as a number of operations but not functions or processes, implementation of which without taking into account specific of dedicated company may bring to problems. Next step after 4th and 5th decomposition that is the desiring for flows for each of these processes.

Hi, all,

Here I would like to share some of my understanding of eTOM and your concern about the decompositions.

Basically, from all of the information in the upstairs, I have different understanding for various definition related to eTOM.

1. eTOM and process framework, I have noticed that most of you are trade eTOM as a process framework, and try to decompose it to much lower levels,  first, from my view, I never think eTOM can be used as a process framework,  and in fact, it is totally like a function framework, while if you have the experience in software development, you may know that for a specified system, when we design the architecture, from the high level design, we will try to build a firm and stable function architecture which can support all the requirement needed from the business and usage purpose,  and in some case, we also can implement all the requirements by using the system style process to cross across the functions , and then you can know the function weather if it is good enough. Here, the function architecture is just like the eTOM framework, and the system process which implements the requirement is actually what we called business process.  so from my view, currently eTOM has already decompose to level 3, from enterprise level, it is ok enough, while from the enterprise level management, we only care about the high level business requirements and its related business process, but when we talking about some detail processes, such as level 4, level5, in fact, we are only talking about the sub-process, which are part of the whole business process from the high level view. just like we doing the detail design for the software architecture,  in this level, the processes are much more specify and are only limited to one of the sub-functions.

2. eTOM and its levels, first of all, from my point, I don’t think the level4 and level5 is much more useful as all of you expected when you actual got it.  for you must care about your purpose of wishing, as I said before, eTOM is just a function framework, so it is much more useful for managers than technical guys,  so to make full use of eTOM, from the beginning, you must know what is your business and what is the business requirements you have, if you can not know this, the eTOM is useless ,  and then, you must know the business process related to the business requirements, also, if you do not know how to design business process, the eTOM is useless,  and then, you must know how to mapping to current eTOM functions from various levels, if can not do so, eTOM is useless,  and at last , you must know how to decompose the business process to different components and can abstract and summarize all the different concepts, then you have the ability to design the more detail functions and decompose the process to level4 , even level5, here is my suggestion:  level4 is much enough,  here is the reason : 1>, the numbers of level4 will at least 5times large than current level3, you can have a think. 2> the level4 is detail enough for you to do the job ok, for level5 in most time, are the detail operation rules, and  this information are the basic rules exists in all the companies, so you never need to redesign it , just use it, that's ok.

Here, I only give out 2 point based on the discussing you have; the key point of mine is that: eTOM is not a process framework, it is a function framework. and level 3 is enough for enterprise level, level4 is only useful for department level, but first of all, the understanding of business and business process is much important than just get the level 4 and level5 decomposition of eTOM.

 

B.R.

Hared.

 

If you read GB921 document, you'll find that there are three important stages of eTOM :

1. Process grouping : visualize the 'big picture' of the framework. The basis of the framework. Here you can find the matrix of eTOM where customer end-to-end process meets company functional process. 

2. Process decomposition : it uses function tree diagram to breakdown the processes into levels, the function tree and levels is just a tool to help viewing the detailed process and define its owner, actually it is not representing any relations.

3. Process flow : this is where we can see the relation among the processes.

if you notice, eTOM separated processes from entities. I considered eTOM framework are pure common processes, the entities are discused in SID (Shared Information Data).

i think as a whole, eTOM is really a process framework.

Hi,

At the moment I am working on the eTOM to SID mapping and it would be nice to have  all eTOM levels (as deep as possible) available in order to achieve good levell of precision.

Would appreciate greately if you could share your knowledge ...

thanks a lot,

/sedad

For the specific company, we found that the 2 level is sufficient to be used as mandatory for the manager (process owner). 3 level is recommended him only, the manager organizes 3 level systems on his own mind to provide required output of 2 level processes. I think that the generic 4 level processes may be needed only if we have a large number of events so that different work groups are needed for each of the level 3 processes. 

Hi Bonnie,

I am also very interested to see detail the level 4 and 5 decomposition.  Please mail me @ aribowo.aribowo@nokia.com

Much appreciated, Thanks in advance,

Aribowo

About the decomposition Level 3 to Enterprise; is there a document with details like the GB921S to SIP?

 

Much appreciated, Thanks in advance,